I'm speaking with Jae Wendell, who is a senior industrial design major at Pratt. We talk about their projects regarding sustainability, upbringing in Montessori, and design ethics.
This interview was conducted over Instagram Live on March 29, 2020.
I: What is this canvas behind you?
J: It's back from my fine art days. It was like a test Canvas from when I used to do large scale oil paintings.
I: Nice. It looks really cool. Like bark or something.
J: Thanks, I was really obsessed with…. I'm forgetting her name right now. She's a color field painter from the 60s. Anyway, call in if you are watching and know.
I: Okay, but yeah, so we were talking about
What made you switch from Printmaking to Industrial Design?
J: Specifically my 3D professor, which is why I think that the 3D curriculum is so important to young would-be Industrial Designers. I was Printmaking, but then I had Molly for my 3D class. Molly, I forget her last name. She’s an industrial design professor and teaches freshmen 3D. She kept telling me that I'd be really good at ID, and every time someone would ask what my major was she would shout from across the room, “Industrial Design!” and basically convinced me to switch by telling me more about it. I also had a good friend who was in it, Sam Bonney. Sam Bonney was in my section. He was Industrial Design. I got to learn more about it from him. He ended up leaving Pratt.
I: Sam Bonney is very missed, I know everyone loves him.
J: He's doing super cool conservation stuff now.
I: Aside from your professor… 3D is the class where we're experimenting with all these materials, and forms… Did you have a specific medium or material that you fell in love with, or a project that you really liked?
J: I always really loved working in the woodshop and making things with my hands. I always really loved sculpture. I did a couple pre-college programs and when I did the one at Cranbrook, we ended up making a lot of porcelain slip-casted objects. I always loved making things. I was torn between switching to Sculpture and switching to Industrial Design, because back I wanted to do Industrial Design to make beautiful objects. And I was like, “I can do sculpture with an industrial design degree, but I can't do industrial design with a sculpture degree.”
I: Yeah, that is true. That's arguable, it's kind of a grey area, of course.
J: Exactly. In the middle school that I went to, we were really lucky –– despite it being a really terrible experience overall, because, middle school –– because I was in the Midwest, Michigan, with the auto industry…. our middle school actually had shop classes and drafting classes. So I learned drafting, woodworking, some light metalworking in middle school. And I actually knew how to properly draft a drawing. And we got to use pink foam, and design a little car that you would then carve out of the pink foam using the bandsaw…. I didn't really realize that at the time, but looking back, I think that really made me interested in it. As I learned more about Industrial Design, and what sustainability really means besides just like, “Oh, it's made out of bamboo… ” Learning more about sustainability really changed my viewpoint on if I want to make things, why I want to make things, and what I would want to make. Then when I went on my study abroad, I learned that industrial design is a lot more than making physical things. You can design a lot of non-physical things. Now I self-identify less as an industrial designer and more as just a designer. Like, on my business cards, I don't say “industrial design” I say I just say “design.” Industrial design is also all about finding the best solution to a problem. And sometimes the best solution is a series of informational booklets, sometimes it's a series of workshops, sometimes it's an object.
I: Yeah, one thing I want to ask you:
Is there a particular project you are really fond of, maybe one that's ongoing that you're really passionate about?
Maybe in regards to sustainable design?
J: Specifically in regards to sustainable design, a project that I really love is last semester's project, which I really pushed and advocated for the way I wanted to approach the design process, and got to work with some real collaborators. The project is called “Multi-Species Playground.” It's a process of reimagining our coastal infrastructure to be prepared for the eventuality of climate change. So rather than using hard structures, like levees and dams…. those structures all try to prevent water from coming onto land. But no matter what we do, eventually parts of New York City will be underwater. And that includes a lot of park areas. So I thought about the playground as a great design opportunity for non-directive, abstract structure that could support both humans and then marine life. And Biophilic concrete has been increasingly used in coastal projects because the holes in the concrete provide great habitats for microorganisms, and added calcium carbonate makes it a great home for oysters. So using concrete playground structures with specific textures and specific shapes, I designed this structure that can also function as an oyster reef slash underwater habitat once it's underwater. 50, 100 years down the line.
I: What class was that for?
J: That was for my Public Design Studio last semester. What I really loved about the project was that during the process, I was able to design a series of workshops with students from the children's school. So I actually got to work with a group of kids and design with them and use my position as a designer to amplify what they wanted from their playgrounds.
I: I'm amazed that you got to talk to kids about this, I think that's a vital part of the research for something like this. I think a lot of people are a little bit limited because maybe they aren't able to speak to their audience directly. Who facilitated that?
J: So I took Design Core ––
I: With Michael Kelly!
J: –– and one of our clients for that class runs a Coastal Resiliency Center in Red Hook. And when we were doing our site visit for that class, I just asked him, “hey, do you need a design intern? I would love to work with you guys.” And without submitting a portfolio or anything, I just got an internship. Which is actually what I'm going to be up late doing work for tonight. But his son is a kid, so he was able to connect me with their school. His group was interested in that project a lot. I also was interested in working directly with kids, because I'm really passionate about user-centered design and co-design with the user. So, not just consulting the user, but actually designing with them is vital to making design that's actually good. There are so many things in the world that could be better if they were actually designed by the people who were going to use them. I feel like children especially are often not consulted directly about what goes into their environments.
I: Yeah, that is very true.
Do you have a project in mind that you would eventually like to do if you had the time and the resources? A dream project?
J: I have a project that feels really unfinished to me. When I was on my study abroad, the semester was split into like thirds. And for the first third, we worked with this design museum, Vandalorum …. We were both designing an exhibition and designing a new way to work with the waste from local factories. So my group got connected with a rubber manufacturer that makes car parts for Volvo. And through a lot of research, iteration, experimentation, we found some really strong science showing that different types of mushrooms can break down the sulfur bonds in plastics. It's been shown that they can digest plastics, but we were theorizing that the ability might be able to be extended to rubber. And that biological devulcanization, which is possible by certain bacterias, could also be done through a combination of fungi and bacteria. So we were trying to redesign a biological composting system for the rubber waste that comes from these factories. But that's not something you can do in a third of a semester.
I: No, not at all.
J: So the project ended up being speculative. And it was this exhibition proposing this concept. It was really great. But our work got to be shown in a design museum, and people from the factory as well as people in the design industry got to see it at the reception. But it just feels like something that I would love to do an actual experiment on, do a lot of tests to see whether or not this can work, and develop a more implementable system for digestion of plastic.
I: Yeah, I guess you'd have to find biologists to link up with to make that happen. That sounds like a fascinating project, though. I saw pictures of the exhibition design. Is that documented anywhere that people can go check out?
J: It's the most recent thing on my Instagram [@jaewendell] because I have not been updating my design account in a long time. It's also written about a small Swedish newspaper.
I: Cute. Oh, I should have asked as well: do you have a website that shows your playground work as well?
J: I don't currently. I will be making that in Professional Practice this semester.
I: That's why we have that class. Awesome.
Is there anything that you're currently looking at, or something you're learning more about right now that's been fascinating to you?
J: I run the [Pratt] material lab Instagram, @prattmateriallab. It's actually been a great excuse to keep up to date with design news. I think there's a lot of cool stuff happening with new materials people are developing. Which is a double edged sword, because I think a lot of times people use sustainable materials as a one-size-fits-all solution for sustainability, without looking at other options. But there's a lot of cool new ways people are learning to use seaweed and algae. I think seaweed and algae are both crazy materials that can do so many things, and are very good for the planet. In terms of specific designers I'm interested in: I'm really obsessed with the Van Alen Institute, where Gigi [Neison] and Zoe [Herring] have both intern’d. The Institute does a lot related to public design, public health, and cities. And that's where I really want to focus my career as much as I can, in terms of sustainability in public space. And public space in general.
I: Nice. While we're on this track, I want to ask: if you could reflect back to before Pratt –– maybe this is relevant to your middle school days –– was there a specific piece of art or design that really fascinated you? Maybe looking back, you're might think, “Oh, this is why I'm so fascinated with industrial design?”
J: Yeah, I was thinking about this, and this answer might be obvious to anybody who has had a design class with me…. But I think that Montessori was super influential to my life.
I: Could you explain it for anyone who doesn't know what that is?
J: Yeah. My mom is a Montessori teacher. So, besides my own experience with it, I am continuing to be exposed to it, even after I left the school. But it’s a teaching and learning style that is focused on hands-on learning. For instance, when you're doing math, you have different bead cubes that you act out the math problems with, or when you get to more complex math, like multiplication, there are these different boards, and very specific objects that allow you to learn in different ways.
I: It sounds like you’re combining your senses to learn.
J: It's really hands on. And it's also all about being self directed. Students in elementary school get a weekly work plan that has everything you need to get done in one week. You can do it in whatever order you want. You can work at a table, you can work sitting on the floor on a rug, you can work sitting in like a beanbag. It allows for more autonomy over your own education. It also teaches students to manage their own schedule. Students move at their own pace, and there are no grades. If you fail a test, you don't just move, you redo it again until you pass. So students might be in the same grade but be at different levels when it comes to things like math or reading or writing. It’s also focused a lot on peace education. So every room also has a “peace corner.” If you're getting stressed and need a break, you can like, go sit and read a book or play with magnets. It's also focused on practical life. So in the same way that you have to complete math, reading and writing, you also have to, for example, complete an activity where you sand a block, or learn an instrument, or sew. We cooked, we did yoga. The high school version of Montessori is that students work together and functionally run a farm.
I: I didn't know about that. Is that the type of high school you also went to?
J: I only did Montessori through fifth grade. There are very few truly Montessori high schools and colleges. Most people are only ever exposed to it for preschool and kindergarten.
I: The few people I know who have done that just did early elementary school Montessori. So yeah, so the idea of managing yourself, tactility, and hands on learning…
J: For instance, when we were learning geometry, we would look at prisms, and certain toys that you play with in preschool were brought back in later elementary school, and you find out that they're based in math. For example, there were these cubes that were a 3D puzzle. And you later find out that they're showing how exponential notation works. So looking back, the idea of a simple object having a lot of hidden meaning…
I: That completely makes sense, hearing you say all that. I'm thinking about your playground assignment. Discovering how children learn, how their brains work, and what they want out of their play spaces.
J: Children are a lot smarter than people often give them credit for. Since Montessori allows you to move at your own pace, certain kids are doing addition and subtraction and simple multiplication in kindergarten. My mom mostly teaches at private schools, but she’s taught in charter schools with state regulations too. And there are certain regulations in the state of Michigan…. Like, you aren't allowed to have a calendar in a preschool or kindergarten room, because that's too advanced of a concept to talk about. So they might have one up in the classroom, but they'll have to take it down when the inspectors come.
I: That’s so funny. I mean, kind of sad. That doesn't make any sense to me.
J: There's certain things you aren't allowed to teach at that young of an age, according to state regulations.
I: Wow. Strange because kids are exposed to that regardless, because their parents are saying, “today you go to school, and today you don't” or, “ today I go to work.”
J: In Montessori, there are cards, I think it's fourth grade, where you learn the Chinese boxes of botany. You learn scientific notation, and [taxonomic rank] like kingdom, domain, phylum [...] of different types of plants.
I: What grade is this?
J: Like fourth grade. We learned to identify different kingdoms by leaf patterns, and it’s all through these series’ of cards and labels. Which I think is why I love developing workshop toolkits so much.
I: Yeah, educational materials, learning spaces, learning objects.
J: There's this design tool called a cultural probe, which is like a kit of activities. I know you guys do them in ComD. I designed one for food research. For example, in this one you label where different foods belong, whether in the fridge or on the counter…. this one was asking people to draw their fridge…. this one was writing a goodbye letter to a piece of food that you had to throw out this week. And this one was finding the oldest food in your kitchen and documenting what it's survived. Like, has it survived moving apartments? Has it survived a winter? I also had people collect ephemera from their kitchens. Things like stickers, bottle caps… and this is all part of my initial research for the semester.
I've been feeling really stuck this semester, and honestly really unmotivated. I think a lot of it has to do with the fact that a lot of the projects that I want to do aren't very realistic within the scope of the semester. Originally I was going to design for the end of the cherry industry in Michigan. Due to climate change, and the sensitivity of cherries as a fruit, eventually their production is no longer going to be viable. But over a lot of development, it turned into looking at food waste in the home. But now, due to Coronavirus stuff, I'm in this big Slack group my roommate showed me for people who live in Bed Stuy. It's called “Bed Stuy Strong,” and there's about 2,000 people in it. And in the cooking channel of the Slack, I found out that GrowNYC has stopped food scrap collection. And Bed Stuy doesn't have roadside compost in the same way that Pratt’s neighborhood does. So I am going to design an open source DIY composting setup that actually fits into a New Yorker’s home space, and is a beautiful and usable object that makes composting easy. Even though collectivized composting is the best solution, that's not possible right now. And I want to get this done this semester so people can start making them.
I: Do you have an idea of what materials people would need to make it?
J: I have no idea. I just came up with the idea this weekend.
I: Oh, nice. This is definitely throwing everyone for a loop in one way or another, but I'm glad that you're refocusing your attention to something that is topical and relevant right now. I'm surprised no one has really addressed this issue sooner.
J: There are definitely things that exist out there right now that are like home composting setups. But the question then becomes like, “why aren't people using them? What are the blockers there? How can we like design through those?”
I: This a good segue into my last question. It sounds like your way of thinking about design has radically changed from freshman year, when you were like, “I want to make beautiful objects.” And now you're like, “I want to design for change, and the futures that we're actively facing that are coming near and nearer every day….”
How have you changed from the beginning of your journey to now , as a person and as a designer?
J: I think as a designer –– and I’m still struggling with this –– I’m trying to stop fighting the friction between my morals and the design industry. And reject conventions of the existing design industry in order to make my projects align with my morals. So, for instance, with this composting project, my first thought, after being conditioned to think this way by capitalism was, “I’ll make a CAD model of what it theoretically would be, and then eventually it would be produced.” And then, “I want to make it open source…. but how would I make money off of that?” And then I was like, “wait, this doesn’t have to follow the rules of capitalism.” That's always been a hard struggle. There are some amazing professors like Amanda who will say, “you can be as radical as possible” and then there are other Industrial Design professors within the department who are like, “speculative design is just stupid shit. It's not real, grow up, you're not going to make a living off of that.” So learning to –– this sounds dramatic, but –– stand up to that has been part of my journey as a designer. And my views on design in general have changed. I used to jokingly say, “all art is the same.” And now I say, “all design is the same” in the sense that genre labels aren’t very important.
I: Do you mean in the sense that design is problem solving?
J: Yeah, the design process.
I: As a person, how have you changed?
J: I was just talking about this with my therapist.
I: We love a good therapy segment.
J: For a lot of my life, in middle and high school, I was a personality sponge. Maybe more of a chameleon. I would take on the ideas and interests of whoever I was closest with at the time. I moved around between a lot of groups. I went through every bad phase that everyone has in middle school, and in high school. I got them all done. I was a scene kid, I was a Belieber…
After I left high school, I had this feeling of like, “what is that my personality?” and even in early college, the feeling of, “who am I without other people? Do I have a personality without other people?” Now I feel more secure in the fact that I know who I am in a vacuum.
I: And now we’re in one.
J: Yeah. I've also become more confident in a lot of ways. I’m also trying to be less of a dick. So phrase that better, I've been trying to reconnect with my ethics, and my compassionate side, and make sure that I'm actually living with my values.
I: Yeah! And it sounds like you are based on what we've talked about today.
J: One can hope.
I: Jae, thank you so much for doing this. That was such a great note, I want to end on it. Um, seriously, thank you for talking to me for an hour.
J: This was fun!