I'm speaking with Ruth Minah Buchwald, who is a senior Critical Visual Studies major at Pratt Institute, with a minor in writing and film. We talk about diaspora, influential literature, her multi-media thesis, and making art at home.
This interview was conducted over Zoom on April 21, 2020.
I: How are you? This is crazy that we find ourselves in this position.
R: Fucking weird and crazy.
I: Are you home right now?
R: No, I’m still in Brooklyn but I'm going back to New Jersey this week, I’ll isolate when I get home.
I: Are your parents excited to have you back? I’m sure they are.
R: Yeah, they're in their 60s and they're both diabetic. My sister is a doctor, she works at a hospital and they’re dealing with some patients. But her hospital is not as overwhelmed as the ones here. Thankfully, it's just so crazy.
I: Is she living at home with them right now?
R: No, she lives and works in Virginia, right outside DC. So yeah, it's not a hard hit there. But she obviously wants to make sure we're all super cautious. You’re in Brooklyn still?
I: Yeah, I think I'm going to stay here until the end of the school year. I would like to stay a little bit longer, but I also do want to see my family. It's weird, I really like my independence here, and I actually am enjoying being in New York despite the craziness. It's going to be weird, going home, but I really do miss them. I guess for the sake of this making sense to the viewer, I'll go ahead and formally introduce you: I'm with Ruth Buchwald, and Ruth, you're a senior who started out as a writing major and now you're a Crit Vis [Critical Visual Studies] major. You can go ahead and introduce yourself in any other way you see fit, and could you touch a little bit upon what you started here as and what made you want to switch?
R: Yeah, so all those things you said about me are true, haha. I'm in Crit Vis. I switched in halfway through Pratt. So I basically started the major my fall semester junior year. I guess I should go back to how I came to Pratt itself. I didn't know much about it in high school, but later on, I did one of those summer programs, for creative writing, specifically script writing. It was through UVA in Virginia. It's called the Young Writers Workshop, it’s really cool. I love it there. All the counselors were people in college or recent grads, who enjoyed writing. It wasn't necessarily what everyone was studying or doing professionally. That's what I liked about the program: the only thing we had in common was that we all liked writing and reading. There were two counselors there who had recently graduated from Pratt, and I thought they were cool. And then I learned more about the school.
I: So is that why you came to Pratt?
R: Yeah, that's why I applied. And of course when you apply, you apply into a major because you're submitting a portfolio. I didn’t know about Crit Vis at all.
I: Yeah, I think a lot of people didn't.
R: I know I'm always surprised, but it's small and pretty new. I think it's older than 10 years but definitely not older than 20.
I: What was your experience in writing, right off the bat?
R: I really liked it. I loved all my professors. The orientation you go to in April, while people are deciding, made it clear that you start actually writing right away, you don’t need to start with Gen-ed classes. Besides, you know, some required classes. I learned about the major [Crit Vis] my freshman year. I thought it was really cool. I was always interested in writing and reading, and when I was applying to Pratt and other colleges, I did kind of want to take classes on anything I was interested in and have a more general liberal arts/humanities experience. And that's what Crit Vis basically is. So I only knew about it freshman year, and by sophomore year I started researching it more, and talking to people I started meeting who were in the major. I really liked that it's not just tailored to one focus. I mean, you can choose to do that, and then have all these other different types of classes: text theory, art, etc.
I: You talked about having an interest in writing and reading for a while,
When did you really start noticing, “this is something I'm really interested in doing?” Even as early as middle school or elementary school..?
R: I mean, I actually don't think I was even that great. I never won, a contest or anything in elementary… I didn't stand out for it. I guess I was just one of those kids who was trying everything. In high school there are more informative things that are to your tastes. But maybe because of the stuff I started reading freshman and sophomore year of high school I felt more of an attraction to it than other stuff. And then I joined a journalism class/club. I was thinking, when I was preparing for this interview, that at the time I wanted it to be an art or film or theater critic. I really just wanted to do that. Some form of journalism.
I: And you were a freshman in high school when you were thinking that?
R: Yeah, from sophomore year on, and then I did that writing program between junior and senior years. So I had a more solidified focus, right.
I: So fast-forward to now, are you done with thesis? Have you already submitted it? I was talking to Eric and his was due, I think, last Thursday.
R: I think Eric is doing his defense tomorrow. There are two groups and I'm in the final drafts of mine because my defense is in a couple of weeks.
I: Oh, so they really spaced them out.
R: Yeah, it's now on the week that was supposed to be our graduation. Also, I didn’t know Neil Gaiman was our commencement speaker!
I: Neil Gaiman?
R: Yeah, like Coraline, Neil Gaimon? The Graveyard Book...
I: Do you think he's still gonna speak at the virtual graduation?
R: Today Pratt sent an email today explaining that he's gonna deliver it through Zoom. And now the graduation is the 30th.
I: That's incredible. I think I must have just skimmed that email.
R: Yeah, I saw his name in bold.
I: That's amazing. But yeah,
Could you talk a little bit about your thesis?
R: Yeah, sure. I could talk about the thesis process for Crit Vis.
I: In general, yeah, you could cover that if you want! But I also have no idea what you've been writing and researching.
R: It's very long winded. So yeah, so in Crit Vis a requirement is you do a thesis paper. There are two requirements depending on what you're doing. But often what a lot of people do is write a shorter paper and have a creative component, which can be anything as long as you explain it in your proposal. Everything is presented, usually there is a gallery show at the end of the year. Actually, someone in Crit Vis’ thesis was curating the show because they're interested in curation. They were organizing the gallery show, because it was going to be in Pratt Manhattan. But that was taken away from them, like I'm sure in every department we're talking about. Moving the shows online, or doing them later. Anyway, I did the shorter paper and a creative component. I don't know if I mentioned it, but I kept writing as a minor and I also took on a film minor.
I: So you did have a film minor? Yeah, I should have mentioned that in the beginning.
R: But yeah, that's fine. So I kept my writing minor because I basically already had it. I also started my film minor junior year. So my last two years were basically a lot of catch up to get all those requirements. So basically, those are the two main forms incorporated into my thesis. The title is “Debunking the American Dream through Diasporic Narratives.” All the texts I use are by Asian American writers and artists. They include art, visual art, plays and films. Then the paper is exploring the effects of people and families, often through transgenerational narratives, coming to the US, immigrating… Stories of people's immigration to the US and the expectation –– I don't want to say promise –– expectation of achieving the American dream. So it's demystifying the concept of that social mobility, and how that affects people from those backgrounds. All the resources came from my career prep, through classes, and some internships. It's a very personal thesis to me. In my introduction I explained how it's kind of like an artist statement for me. And then I was going to shoot three shorts. I had of that planned. But the shooting day came when like they started closing the city down.
I: So none of it is shot right now?
R: Yeah. So I'm going to submit a treatment with the script and inspiration. I think [the department] is talking about posting everyone's creative work online. There’s someone who did a full comic, and I think they're like pitching it to Random House. It's 100+ pages. I know someone made an app that was really cool.
I: Wow. Could you talk a little bit more about the short films?
R: Yeah, more so than “films” I describe them as sketch video… things.
I: Oh, even better. What are your videos?
R: So one was going to be a recording of these Korean American older women who play this card game hwatu, which is a kind of gambling card game. My grandma would play, and a lot of my family members. I would play it with her when I was younger. We were gonna go out to Flushing where I found this great group of ladies who were like, “I guess you can film us, we're here every Saturday.” It was going to be interviews with my grandma and mom as well as some of the women. Talking about daily life. It's like a place to gossip. So that's kind of a story about –– and I reference a lot of the texts about this in my written thesis –– forms of assimilation and finding between-homes in different places.
I: Yeah.
R: Another one was based on this short I watched in a documentary class called, “Betty Tells Her Story,” and it was going to be shot on 16millimeter. The concept of the film was that this woman –– it was made in the 70s –– is telling the story about how she bought this dress that she loved and made her feel good, look good. And then she lost it. She tells the story two different times. The reason she tells it two times, for a limited amount of time, is because it's on one roll of 16 millimeter which lasts around 11minutes. The first time she tells it, she doesn’t seem affected by it, and the second time she clearly is a little more emotional. I don’t want to say mine was kind of a parody of it, but it was going to be me delivering a monologue and a character evolving a story that kind of seems nonsensical, and might not seem important to the viewer… but it has a deeper root in assimilation. It has feelings of isolation and dissociation. The third one was going to be a short play, we were going to do it on a stage…
I: Were you going to use Memorial Hall?
R: I was thinking like Memorial Hall, or playing around in one of the film building studios. We had one reserved for a day or two. It was a short play about not celebrating Christmas, but it was kind of just like, one dialogue.
I: Wow, okay. If you were to have made that, I mean, I'm sure that would have been documenting on film and everything, but would you have also performed it for an audience? Or a small audience?
R: Um, I hadn't thought about it. Maybe in the future I could.
I: I was gonna say, it's a shame that you didn’t get to do all this stuff. But I wonder if in the future, somehow they could also be performed as well as made into shorts. Both would be awesome.
R: Yeah, yeah. That last one was inspired by this playwright I love who I was talking about. Young Jean Lee had this play about two years ago –– I think she was the first Korean American playwright to have a play on Broadway –– “Straight White Men” with Armie Hammer. I don't know if you remember that was on.
I: I do. I didn't see it.
R: I didn’t get to see it either, I've only seen one of her plays live, but I learned of her through a playwriting class I took at Pratt, that's how I learned of her and a lot of her plays. She had put up the play on Vimeo, and we talked a lot about how she chooses to preserve them. Because when you see the plays themselves, you can tell by watching the videos there are video and film elements that could be played with.
I: So my next question is about… I mean, the project isn't entirely completed, unfortunately. But once the world “reopens,” everyone says, “when things go back to normal” whenever that would be, if at all….
Do you have a project in the back of your mind that you've been saving? Or something you'd like to work on in the future?
R: I would love to do a bunch of freelancing stuff, as the world around us is crumbling. I've been a contributing writer to some places, and I have a few things that will be coming out in May and June that I'm really excited about. Yeah, so I'm probably just going to be working on freelance like that. I'm really excited about these two interviews I'm doing with these writers I really love. And I'm trying to do a full outline of a script that'll be transformed to pitch to places. I also want to make a short comedy series.
I: You don't have to go into detail, but do you have a basic premise that you really want to explore?
R: It’ll definitely be personal. And I want it to be between New Jersey and New York.
I: I hope to see that happen!
R: I know me too. I would love to have the whole thing planned out and submit it for grants, so I can have money to make it. When the world is back to normal.
I: Is there anyone you're looking at right now, or maybe a particular piece of work that you've been interested in? Anyone that you admire, or anything that you've been watching or reading?
R: I could list everyone who wrote texts that are referenced in my thesis. Ooh, so he's a comedian, but I'd say he's much more than that… I really like him because I feel he has a similar background to me: Julio Torres. He wrote for SNL and then he had the show Los Espookys. He also has this groundbreaking HBO special called “My Favorite Shapes.” It’s a standup special but he's sitting, and he just has this conveyor belt of little things he picks up and talks about. He was some sort of art major at the New School or Parsons. He dresses so well. His Twitter [name is @juliothesquare] and Instagram name is @SpacePrinceJulio, and that really describes his style: Space Prince. He always has amazing hair and earrings. One time I saw him at Baby’s All Right.
I: How old is he? Roughly?
R: Around 30? He just has a really unique form of comedy, which I love. In addition to writing for SNL, which is very classic within the comedy world. He's also written for different art magazines and stuff which I like to read because he puts a lot of humor into it. The HBO special is great. It's beautiful too, because he has such a specific aesthetic that I think is recognizable and original.
I: I'm definitely gonna look into that, the HBO special. So, I know we're kind of in a weird transitional period right now, as far as moving into our careers, or the job market in general. But one of my questions I'm asking everyone is:
Do you have a dream job? Not necessarily the projects you're working on, but who you would work for or where you would work? And in what capacity?
And I'm interested to see how the answers for this change pre COVID, post COVID. Where's your head with all of that?
R: Yeah, it changes every day along with my emotional capacity for everything that's happening. But in the past week or two, maybe because things at school are coming to an end… But I feel a little bit of freedom because I wasn’t sure I was going to stay in New York after graduation. And my lease is almost up, so I’m moving home because it's just like, “why would I pay rent if I'm not going out?” But before I was interested in moving somewhere else, so now I’m applying to jobs all over the world. Even though I probably won’t hear back from 95% of them. I guess like in an ideal world I would just like to be able to make whatever I want. But a dream job I usually say is a TV showrunner, but I'd still want to write. Maybe edit and or oversee like a magazine or anthology. I don't know if I mentioned it, but I run Ubiquitous [Pratt’s art and literary magazine], I’m Editor In Chief. I've always also loved bookmaking and editorial art stuff. Most of the jobs I’m applying to now are at the assistant level and creative jobs. So editorial assistant, production assistant. In that realm. Something that will also give me time to work on my own stuff. But I like doing a lot of different things. Just being able to make and work with people who like, I respect, and who also respect me. That's a big thing.
I: That's a big thing.
R: Yeah. Because truly your heroes can disappoint you. And someone told me recently whoever you're making art with is who you're supposed to be doing it with. But one thing I'm writing now I would love to have fully formed and fleshed out is a limited thing, when the last episode is done I’d like to pitch it to this comedian actress. I really love her, her name's Catherine Cohen.
I: I know that name. Wait, what is she done?
R: I guess I'll also talk her up. She's up and coming, very New York Alt scene. She has this podcast called Seek Treatment. She's appeared in a few stuff. She's in an episode of High Maintenance. She's in this upcoming movie with Kumail Nanjiani and Issa Rae. She also has this cabaret show called Cabernet Cabaret at Club Cumming which is Alan Cummings’ club on the Lower East Side. Oh my gosh, donate to it. Hopefully once they open back up, go back. It's a show on Wednesday nights, but now she’s doing them on her Instagram, same time. She had Ben Platt on last week. My goal is for her to one day, do my thing. Maybe. If she can.
I: That’s awesome. That's a good goal to have. And it's nice that you specifically have one person in mind. I guess that could be a little nerve wracking.
R: Yeah, at this point I’m like, “well, I could offer you $200 for a day… it would really really mean a lot to me.”
I: So you're someone who has interests, as far as medium, all over the board, which is a really awesome thing. So I'm curious, another thing I'm asking everyone is:
Do you have a specific piece of work, art or design, that had a significant impact on you? Looking back being like, “Oh, that's why I was so obsessed with that” or maybe you’re doing what you’re doing now because of that.
R: Well the book that made me want to be a writer was The Catcher in the Rye. I did read it in school, but I had read it before we read it in class. I know people have mixed opinions. Like, “Holden's so annoying,” which I can understand…
I: Was it his voice that attracted you to it?
R: Well, I think I was able to recognize… Well, the reason that book’s taught is because of the symbolism. And that’s… people always say like, “he’s not even doing anything!” I remember a guy in my class said that… But there's a lot of symbolism in it. The biggest theme I thought of before deciding on diaspora was innocence. I think that's why it affected me a lot, because it's so much about being sad about everyone in this nasty world. I just love the way he talked about it, show how it affects someone. I think it kind of put a name to it, that feeling that we all felt eighth to ninth grade or something. It's average for people. I also thought it was funny.
I: It is funny. I'm actually reading it now… well, I took a break. But I was never forced to read it for school.
R: It’s one of those books where it's really hard to have that same sentiment if you read it after that age.
I: Right, it’s probably going to be a totally different experience for me, but I was like, “I need to like know what this is all about.” It just seemed silly to go my whole life without reading that book. But yeah, the list is so long. And I'm slowly making a dent in it.
R: What do you think of it so far?
I: I really enjoy it. I’m honestly not that far and yet, last I read was he was on the train with that woman. He was coming home and talking about her like son who's an asshole, but talking about him like he was shy and bullied.
R: Were they smoking?
I: Yeah. It's probably the first woman he encountered like on the train. Maybe there's more.
R: Yeah.
I: I want to know how you feel your work has changed, coming into Pratt and now leaving Pratt. But also how you feel you have changed in larger ways.
R: Yeah… you don't think about the meaning of the stuff you make while you're making it. I mean maybe you have something you’re going for, but it doesn't come out like clearly until the end. But realizing the stuff I was writing or making before was geared towards the theme of innocence, or loss of innocence, sort of unlike what I’m making now…. Professors really emphasized making your work personal and working hard on it. Express how you want something to come through: personal is political. We read that essay my freshman year. I really appreciate Pratt’s diversity. I've met people from all over the world. Places I don’t knowI'll be able to go to, now. But I mean even before this, I never knew anyone from some of those areas. And I’ve had more exposure to things, I don't think I've had one professor who had bad taste. I’m sure people don't get along with professors, there’s a few cases where that's happened to me, but I’ve never thought “they don't have anything smart to say to me” because they do know their shit.
I: My very last question is kind of broad, but:
What do you foresee for the future?
R: Besides obvious stuff… everything that’s feeding into our anxieties… I think a lot of us are accepting the fact that everything’s not going to go back to normal. I’ve been listening to The Daily, and they have their medical expert who…. I don’t know if I can get political…
I: You can!
R: In recent weeks, someone I supported has dropped out… I guess the only hope one can have is that the person who may or may not have had a movement…
I: You can say Bernie, it’s ok
R: You can only hope that his movement does inspire other people to come up and actually change the world. What was most appealing to Bernie, for me, was the fact that he was willing to be like, “no, we have to change everything, even if it’s hard.” But, back to the medical expert at The Daily… he said, “you have to think of the time after the Spanish Flu, there was the Depression, but there was also the Roaring 20s, and then after World War II, the baby boom happened…” I guess one thing we can hope for, is that people will make what they want to happen happen… recognize what we need to change, and change it. Give help to the people who don’t have access to countless things. Hopefully there comes more equal opportunity from what’s left over, after all this… which is grim, but you make with what you have.
I: Yeah, I think we’re obviously going to experience a lot of change after all this. I’m really trying to be hopeful that we can collectively recognize inequalities out of this, and experience some systematic change.
R: With inequality, in some ways we are on an equal field right now…. There aren’t sets for people to go on, people don’t have access to printing places, there is a chance for a surge of stuff made from home. I guess I’m saying this because the other day I was watching a stop-motion competition…. This couple made a tennis court with tape, and they each had their rackets….
I: One other thing, and this has already been said, but I think a lot of people are going to realize their own creative potential during this time. A lot of awesome work is already coming out.
R: Yeah, I was thinking to pitch to somewhere else, a list of great things that were made at home.
I: Yeah! That sounds awesome. The one, tired thing I’m getting is like, “Shakespeare wrote King Lear in quarantine...”
R: Ok, forget him, because Doja Cat made “MOOO!” in a day. Two years ago. I don’t care about Shakespeare.
I: I really do want you to write this list and publish it. Doja’s at the top of the list.
R: Yeah, “MOOO!,” King Lear, and the tennis video.
I: Thank you so much for doing this with me, this was a great conversation, and it was so nice catching up with you.
R: Yeah!
I: In ways it still hasn’t fully hit me that my time at Pratt is ending but having these conversations is bringing some type of closure.
R: Yeah, I love this. Thank you for having me!